State of Jazz

The New Recording Labels

Interviews With Origin Record Owners,  John Bishop and Matt Jorgensen

Origin Records has made quite an impression in the Jazz world in the last few years. This new label led by John Bishop and Matt Jorgensen (since the Fall of 1997) has created a resource where 85 artists have signed on to carry on the mission of artistic music. The following was taken from their web-site:

Origin Records was created in the fall of 1997 by Seattle drummer John Bishop to help in the design, production and distribution of jazz recordings made by his own groups and by artists he's known or worked with over his 25 years of performing.

With a great amount of early and continuing help from his former student, webmaster and New York drummer Matt Jorgensen, the label debuted on the web in 1998 and has grown steadily. With Matt's move back to Seattle in 2002, the focus has been to expand distribution, performing and recording opportunities for Origin artists as well as making developed resources available to a wider group of artists.

With Origin focusing on the music of significant Northwest artists, OA2 Records was started in June of 2002 to allow a broader array of musical statements from a wider range of artists. The Origin/OA2 catalog now boasts releases from more than 85 artists who share the common goal of an ever-evolving musicians collective.

Since the Fall of 2003 Origin Records has produced the Ballard Jazz Festival. This event has brought world-class artists to Seattle, to share the stage with some of the Northwest's finest musicians. Expanding in 2004 to include the Brotherhood of the Drum concert series, the Ballard Jazz Festival continues to grow, and in 2005 the award for "Northwest Concert of The Year" by Earshot Magazine was given to the Joe Locke / Geoffrey Keezer Group's performance, now available on CD here.origin-records.com

What impressed me about the work of Jorgenson and Bishop was their vision to create artistic resources, broadcast artists and to have a genuine impact on their community at-large. In the last 10 years, Origin has had it’s hand in starting the Ballard Jazz Festival, Live365- Jazz Radio, successful production of Artists both on the local and national level and received four Grammy-nominations. They continue to have vision for the music progressing forward. I recently caught up with both Matt and John for an interview about Origin and their work. Here’s what they had to say…

John, welcome to JR247, and thank-you for taking time to share with us some your experience at Origin Records.

John Bishop: Thanks, great to be here!

Rick Holland, JR247: John, can you speak about your playing experience and how this has helped you run a

John Bishop

JR247: Can you talk about some of your experiences working with top notch recording engineers, like Rudy Van Gelder, and what that brings to your experience at Origin?

JB: I think more than anything, it's just good to be around dedicated professionals in whatever one does and for me, seeing a person like Van Gelder looking ahead to new technologies and always trying to improve the quality of his work, it's very inspiring. Of course people like Rudy and Teo Macero have found their fame and fortune so the work they do already has a built-in stature, but I think in every town you find people with that same creative power, and tapping into their talents is what makes the difference when trying to create recordings to match that standard.

JR247: Tell us how Origin started? The concept behind your philosophy? And some key ingredients to its success?

JB: Origin really didn't start as an idea to have a label, but more as the natural extension of what we all do as musicians in trying to get our music out and finding an audience. I started doing graphics and production of CD packages in the mid-90's for my own projects and for friends. By 1997, it was becoming a regular part of my day and it hit me that there were a whole lot of quality projects I had been involved with that had nowhere to go once they were produced. It happened that I had 3 projects that were to be done in the same month that I had a hand in producing, playing on and doing the covers for, so it seemed like a good idea to put a name on it. Because my sister was sponsoring one of the projects for her art gallery, I took the English translation of her store (Provenance), used her birth-date as the first catalog number, and we had us a record label! From there it was very easy to grow in a cohesive manner because I was surrounded by my favorite players, who I'd been making music with for years, and our shared aesthetic and approach to the business made for an easy and comfortable way for us to attack such a beast. I think whatever success we have will come from the quality of the music and it's presentation, the trust and long-term relationships we develop with our artists and audience, and being able to stay around long enough to create a sense of legacy.

JR247:Can you explain to our audience some of the other factors to labels success, other than just picking quality artists?

JB: More than anything, jazz labels today just have to find a way to not go broke. For us, having no illusions about the power or lack of power of all the possible ways to spend money in promoting albums has gone a long way in keeping us financially stable. Because we've all experienced as musicians the opening and closing of clubs, concert halls, record labels, promotion companies, etc. over our lives, I think there can be a benefit to being a musician run company, knowing how easy it can be to fail and making sure we're taking a realistic approach to our options. Success for me, in relation to the label, has always had less to do with sales and commerce and more to do with building community, raising awareness of the musicians and the label, and creating an artistic archive of great music. I think by our working as a sort of "artist co-op," we take the combined knowledge and enthusiasm of a lot of experienced artists to open many more doors of opportunity than we'd have in a traditional label set-up. With a lot of the recent success stories in the independent jazz label racket you'll find really trusting & open artist/label relations. That seems to be the most important development of the last few years and one of the few big positives, creating happier artists, more creative music, and a larger involvement in the process by musicians that can only help the long-term health of the business and jazz in general.

JR247:What are some key events Origin may partner, to help present their artists in the Seattle area?

JB: One of the biggest benefits of having the label has been the new relationships we've developed with music presenting organizations, clubs, festivals, and business & community entities that want help with presenting music. Through that, we've had 10 years solid of having a weekly music showcase at an area club or theater and we were given the opportunity to develop and manage an annual jazz festival. The Ballard Jazz Festival is in it's 4th year and we're continually looking for new ways to expand it's scope and promote the label, the artists, and area musicians. We don't necessarily pursue new outlets but are certainly open to ideas when they're presented and we try to find ways to do more without spreading ourselves too thin.

JR247: I know you and Matt are also involved in educational activities. Can you elaborate some of your educational goals you include in your mission?

JB: Since most jazz musicians teach privately, in schools, or at least do clinics and workshops, it seems like a natural to find a way to add an educational aspect to the events we do. Seattle has a very strong high school big band tradition with some of the best programs in the country. We feel our most valuable contribution would be in expanding their exposure to improvisation and working in smaller group contexts, developing as strong an identity and knowledge of the quartet as they do for the big band tradition. The Ballard Jazz Festival is our main focus for that so we try to provide students with a range of clinics from our guest performers and a few hours in the afternoon to perform with their school combos in front of an enthusiastic audience. As a nod to the big band, we began last year putting together an all-star high school band to perform the works of NW composers that the students might not have been aware of. With world-class writers like Butch Nordal, Jim Knapp, Phil Kelly and others in the neighborhood, we thought it'd be a good way to make the students and audiences aware of the talent in their midst and provide them the opportunity to work on some very challenging music.

JR247: How has the All About Jazz-Seattle publication been a help to your efforts?

JB: It seems like the people who create the cultural and musical backdrop to a community deserve some sort of media coverage and acknowledgement, but with radio, newspapers and television going the way it has, chances of it happening for most are very slim. We never considered doing anything like this, but the paper already existed in Seattle and was covering people and events that needed to be covered. The person who was doing it was having trouble keeping up so he made the decision to just stop publishing. We hooked a few other artists and writers together and figured out a way we could keep the paper going, and I think it has ended up being successful in reflecting Seattle's jazz community and telling some stories that would otherwise be ignored. Publishing the paper has been a huge challenge, but ultimately a very worthwhile feeling endeavor.

JR247: You and Matt Jorgensen seem to be a dynamic and very compatible team. How important has it been to have a partner like Matt that you can rely on and team with mission? Can you explain your different roles?

JB: Thanks, I like the word dynamic! As a little history, Matt started taking drum lessons with me when he was 15 and stuck it out through high school. When he moved to New York to attend the New School at 19, he did a very fine job of keeping in touch, so we always were talking about music, the business, dealing with unlikable people and so on. Besides developing his musical voice and a drumming career over his ten years in New York, Matt started messing around with web design around the time I started the label and he offered to take care of the web needs. It has been a steady growth since then on all levels. He and his wife moved back to Seattle in 2002 which has had a great effect on our productivity. My main jobs are related to the label proper - talking to and signing up artists, CD design and replication, contracting, accounting, maintaining the database and dealing with the distributors. Matt takes care of all web related duties and comes up with all the good ideas. (My other job is to nix his ideas for three months and then offer them up later claiming them as my own.) Matt has made all the difference in the world in making Origin effective. He thrives in situations I might be uncomfortable in when he can talk about the music or the community, and has a very strong right and wrong ethos that makes it enjoyable to pursue projects and ideas once we've decided what we want to do. A family counselor might shrink during one of our "discussions," but we have great respect for each others ideas and ideals.

JR247:John, one of the things I love about what you’re doing, is promoting new music, as well as being a part of the process yourself. I believe this keeps one’s open and fresh to musical endeavors. Can you elaborate on this thought, and talk about some of the process for you individually in your musical walk for continued creative growth?

JB: I think for me, the interaction and relationships with other musicians is everything. I suppose having been a steady member of one band or another since 1975, I was always searching for success within the band and it's actually easier to take great pride in the work of my compatriots and the group as a whole than in my own performance. The label feels like an extension of that for me where I can accept my part in putting these recordings together and somehow, they've had an effect on my approach to the drums and the music that I end up making, especially when we have a flurry of exceptionally creative projects, I can't help but to be affected by it.

JR247:Ultimately, what are future and present goals you have personally and with the label?

JB: I'm afraid I'm very bad at setting goals. I prefer to set up wide concepts (don't go out of business, play better) and then let the world do what it's going to do. In general though, I like to feel forward movement in all the little areas we delve into, so I think I'll start working on a few new projects with the bands I play in, add some manageable foreign promotional and distribution contacts, add another day to the 2007 Ballard Jazz Festival - basically baby steps to fame and fortune!

JR247: I’m very impressed in your ability to make Jazz music into a viable working business. What would you recommend to players coming up in advice in marketing and selling their music?

JB: Thanks! With conventional wisdom of how the record business works quickly crumbling to dust, it seems to me that what's missing from the jazz business world now is a creative curiosity about new technologies (among other things), a more committed involvement with local artistic communities and the sense of adventure in finding ways to move the music forward. We have an intern presently who's attending USC in the music business program. He has a great head start compared with most music students, but the thing that will make the difference for him will be his drive to know what he doesn't yet know he needs to know (I love that sentence). I think with a sense of curiosity, interest in your own community, and an adventurous nature, you can't go wrong with whatever track you'd want to follow.

JR247: How do you feel younger musicians should prepare educationally?

JB: Read, study, practice, listen, start a band, take many lessons, meet people, intern, repeat!

JR247:What do Jazz musicians need to do, and keep doing, to take this art into the next millennium?

JB: More than the obvious of practicing, staying creative and being open to new ideas, I'd think the development and restoration of musician communities will be the way to help the music flourish. Finding ways to make the jazz community of a town a noticeable and notable cultural entity would create the environment where musicians could feel comfortable enough to explore and experiment. I'm thinking of New Orleans in the teens, Kansas City in the '30's, 52nd St, the NY loft scene of the '70's - we need to continue to have definitive models for other communities to draw inspiration from.

JR247: John, talk about the ever changing roles of Jazz Record labels? Why the need for Coop labels in the aid of promoting this music?

JB: At this point, it's practically impossible to have a jazz record label survive and thrive on CD sales alone. Just like record stores counting on labels to pay for promotional opportunities to stay viable, jazz labels are subsidized by one or two popular artists, the deep pockets of an owner, or through a licensing deal where the artist carries the bulk of the costs. To me, the co-op situation would be the only option left for most musicians and at the same time, a great thing for the future of the music. Granted, it means the musician has to decide to be involved completely business-wise and they can't afford to "just play the music" anymore, but with reality factored in, most musicians have never had that luxury anyway and most know plenty about the way the business works they've just chosen to live the dream of "there's a record deal out there just waitin' for me, so I'm waitin' for it!" The interesting thing to me is where this will all lead as musicians take larger roles in promoting and managing their recordings and in the results of having musicians establish future "rules" of how the record industry functions.

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John made some great observations on why the label is ultimately being successful. Things like collaboration and important ties to your local community, in-house production, educational pursuits, and most importantly, people skills. He’s in a position of leadership because of his experience in music and his ability to get along with so many musicians. This next segment-interview, I caught up with John’s partner Matt Jorgensen. He too has helped Origin Records make important progress both in their community and nationally.

JR247:Matt can you explain some of the different roles you and John share at Origin Arts?

Matt Jorgensen

JR247: How did you and John become such an amicable team, both being drummers?

MJ: John was my first drum teacher when I was 15 years old, which means I've known him for over half my life at this point. Back in 1997 when he started Origin Records there was this new thing call "the internet" which people were excited about. So I taught myself how to design websites and embedded myself in Origin Records. I've been around ever since.

JR247: Can you explain the “in house” services you can provide artists, whereby this enables you to concentrate on promotion of musician’s projects?

MJ: We've built a lot of avenues for ourselves just out of necessity. Releasing and marketing the music has been an ongoing process. One thing is that the industry as a whole has changed in the last 5 years or so quite dramatically and it has really favored smaller labels like Origin. I think the center of influence has moved away from the traditional mediums like print, radio and brick-and-mortar stores to the online arena. We now regularly produce both an audio and video podcast which features our music as well as live gigs we've recorded around town. And we are finding that we have subscribers now all over the world. We've been making video features on some of our artists which a few years ago would have cost thousands of dollars to shoot, edit, manufacture and mail out which we can do very quick and inexpensive with our own cameras and my computer and then post online. We've shot, edited and released some videos all in the same day and I think this a great way to market jazz.

JR247:Let’s shift by talking about the clubs you’re showcasing a lot of you talent in Seattle. In particular at places like the Triple Door, etc..

MJ: Yeah, we have been booking a few shows around Seattle. Monday nights at the Triple Door. One Wednesday a month at the University Theater and whatever else comes up. It has never been something that we really set out to do but when an opportunity presents itself we want to help keep the Seattle jazz scene going.

JR247: Can you tell us about the Ballard Jazz Festival? What is Origin’s involvement and philosophical approach to presentation?

MJ: John and I had been kicking the idea of a jazz festival in Ballard for a long time. Ballard is a very unique neighborhood in Seattle, which used to be primarily drunk fisherman and hipsters. John had lived there since the early-90s and I moved into the same building when I moved back from 10 years in New York City. On the block we lived there were 5 or 6 places that had live music, so we started by getting a bunch of clubs on a joint cover for one night. Now it has expanded to 10 - 15 clubs on Friday night and then we also produce a large concert and educational clinics on Saturday at a church down the street. For us, a lot of what we do is about promoting the Seattle regional jazz scene and the Ballard festival is no different. We usually bring in 1 or 2 national acts and then feature a lot of northwest jazz groups. It's a party. You should come this year and hang out.

JR247:Does Origin have more educational goals in mind?

MJ: With the Ballard Jazz Festival we've made sure that the national acts we bring in do an up-close-and-personal clinic with some of the area students. We also started a youth big band last year that we hope to expand.

JR247: Origin is beginning to attract a great roster of musicians from across the USA. Plus two Grammy nominations are coming this year. What do you attribute to this success?

MJ: Well, I should correct you that Origin actually has 4 Grammy nominations ... but who's counting! (laughing)

JR247:: I stand corrected, thank-you!!

MJ: We've just grown over the year and I think with the change in the industry, the larger record companies are cutting back and just not signing a lot of artists, and now that we've been going for almost 10 years we know what we are doing and I think a lot of established artists are no longer looking for a label to "make" their career. I think a lot of musicians realize that the burden has fallen more on them to make their own stuff happen and the new role of the record label is to partner with the artist and I think knowing that, the Origin thing fits well with a lot of artists and they have gravitated to us. And in the end it is about the music. Good music will find a way and we've got a lot of talented musicians making a lot of great music.

JR247::Talk about some other ways Origin has diversified itself. For example in Web business and Radio Live365.com.

MJ: Again, when we've needed to do something we've created it. Some of our releases are more on the 'outside' of traditional jazz radio and might not get as much radio play as they deserve, but then we were thinking, it is so cheap to create your own online radio station through live365.com why don't we start our own online station and broadcast our own music 24 hours a day. This one we really have to give the credit to our intern Jeff who got the ball rolling. And now we have listeners all over the globe and it has helped sell a few more discs, which is always great.

JR247: Matt, tell us about some of your creative goals. Your current groups and what you’re aiming to aspire to do as a player in the jazz business.

MJ: I've done three CDs with my own group, Matt Jorgensen +451, and we are working on a new one which will come out in 2007 and then I have a project with 2 saxophonists, Mark Taylor and Matt Otto, along with bassist Jeff Johnson which is called Automat. That will be out in Fall 2006. I just want to keep playing music and be an active, contributing member to the jazz scene.

JR247:What was some of your educational background? Who were your important teachers?

MJ: I guess I stared kind of late. My younger brother was taking guitar lessons and I thought it would be cool to study drums so I got this flyer for drum lessons by John Bishop. I was 15 at the time and studied with John until I left for New York when I was 19. I did two years of college in Seattle at Shoreline Community College and the band director their was Jeff Sizer who was an incredible influence on me. My friend Tom Abbs was a bass player in the Shoreline band and he decided to move to New York and attend the New School and that seemed like a good idea so I went with him. I was at the New School for two years and studied drums with Kenny Washington and Joe Chambers, had two lessons with Bill Stewart which were really cool, and then got to play in combos led by Reggie Workman and some others. It was a pretty cool experience.

JR247: Who are some of the musicians that inspire you today?

MJ: Oh man, there are so many! If I start naming names then I might leave someone out and then get into trouble. I will say what really inspires me are musicians who have a sense of history but are also current and forward-thinking. There are so many heavy players in the northwest and I'm lucky to be able to play with guys like Mark Taylor, Rob Davis, Jeff Johnson, Thomas Marriott, the list goes on, but there is this sense of, "okay, this is my voice and I'm moving in this direction."

JR247: How do you see the State of Jazz in 2006? What are some of the important goals Jazz musicians must keep in mind to keep the art form viable and alive?

MJ: It is definitely going to require a lot of work. Everyone needs to make their own career these days and there are very few who can just sit back and wait for the phone to ring for sideman gigs. I think for the jazz community there really has to be an embrace of what is available on the internet. For years people have been bitching about the lack of jazz on mainstream television. While that is valid, let's stop kidding ourselves by thinking there ever will be. But there is youtube.com! There is all this great jazz video out there and let's embrace that. Let's make an online jazz television station. Let's start filming our gigs and sharing them. There is lots of stuff like that that we can do. That is how jazz will flourish. But then again, don't watch youtube at night ... go to clubs at night and support your local jazz community!

JR247: What advice would you give musicians in other locales to move this art form forward?

MJ: Rent a room and start putting on your own jazz concerts. Support your local jazz club. Seattle has one club that features local jazz musicians seven nights a week and that is sad. We need more places to play and it will probably be up to musicians to make it happen.

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What I really loved about Jorgensen, was his vision to want to do more. The energy could be felt in the written word! I loved his idea of Jazz Television and his challenge for people to get out and support music. Our society has gotten fat and lazy. We sit at home, eat dinner and dessert, sit on the couch and deny ourselves of culture and social exchange. The only way society can survive is through cultural exchange!! I want to thank Matt and John for joining us this month. I hope their interviews inspire our readers to have vision and to create big ideas!!!